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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:06 pm 
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Phill Cross wrote:

Not certain if you are implying that my working as a KJ is a public health menace or not? Because that would be absurd!

Whoever comes to my shows are taking the risks by being out. Does it not have risks going to Home Depot, Target, Walmart, a car wash, a fast-food or dine-in restaurant, or a number of other activities?!



The current tests are providing many false positives, as well as, negatives. I don't believe them either but these numbers are the only numbers that we can currently work with.

* We had an England, Scotland & Ireland vacation scheduled for mid-September which due to COVID19 we had to cancel. We instead are going to spend our money domestically by visiting Nashville & New Orleans instead!



:!: First of all the guidelines set out seem to touch on karaoke especially. Crowds, inside, singing, drinking, interacting for several hours, seems to hit all of the buttons. If it didn't then it wouldn't be a karaoke show, would it? Everyone I have ever done ended up with people drinking and getting up and personal, especially if you didn't make someone sound like Elvis, which many do not. That is why bars and clubs were some of the last to be opened, which make up many karaoke venues, don't they? I'm sure if cases spike they will be the first to be shut down, like is happening in the Jacksonville beach area of Florida. It is absurd to acknowledge the danger, when venues are the last reopened and the first that will be closed again?

As far as vacations go I had one on the calendar, and cancelled it. I hope you and your family will be safe Phill, the EU has bent it's curve down, Tennessee and Louisianna haven't, like the rest of this country. For those that were hoping for signs of recovery, just keep in mind today was the highest one day increase of new cases to date. Over 5 thousand in Texas and Florida each. In Florida especially it is troubling since many of the new infections is in the 18 to 35 year old range, those bullet proof young people. Those that can spread the disease to unsuspecting seniors, who make up 20% of the state's population. Even in California the number of cases is on the rise over 7,000 today.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:17 am 
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Phill Cross wrote:

Actually, I spoke with two attorneys:
The person that wishes to file suit against anyone has to provide proof
    1) that the intent was to cause harm or the possibility of such intent exists (which it does not)
    2) that the person actually knows that they in fact got COVID19 from that specific location (which they cannot obviously prove!)
    3) that they were not aware of any potential risks involved in their participation or activity (which we all know is exaggerated daily by the media!)



:?: Just one question Phill if their is no legal risk involved for venues or hosts, why is the president and his political organization having rally goes sign waivers? He must feel that even his die hard fans might sue him, or he would not have them sign waivers?

P.S. It is possible to determine if a person contracted COVID19 from a specific location by contact tracing, that is how health professionals determine which business's to shut down. It is called identifying the source of the infection.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:45 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Phill Cross wrote:

Actually, I spoke with two attorneys:
The person that wishes to file suit against anyone has to provide proof
    1) that the intent was to cause harm or the possibility of such intent exists (which it does not)
    2) that the person actually knows that they in fact got COVID19 from that specific location (which they cannot obviously prove!)
    3) that they were not aware of any potential risks involved in their participation or activity (which we all know is exaggerated daily by the media!)



:?: Just one question Phill if their is no legal risk involved for venues or hosts, why is the president and his political organization having rally goes sign waivers? He must feel that even his die hard fans might sue him, or he would not have them sign waivers?

P.S. It is possible to determine if a person contracted COVID19 from a specific location by contact tracing, that is how health professionals determine which business's to shut down. It is called identifying the source of the infection.

Numbers 2 and 3 can be argued in court, however there would be no way to prove (#1) that the KJ's intent was to cause harm, especially since they have come out voluntarily and on their own free will. No one has forced them to come out.

The KJ has nothing to worry about as far as a lawsuit. And if someone did try to sue, it would be thrown right out of court. Unless, you've been living under a rock for the past 4 months, everyone in knows that there is a pandemic going on and is aware of the risks of going out. If people are that stupid to congregate in an enclosed public place for hours on end, and they get the virus, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:59 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Numbers 2 and 3 can be argued in court, however there would be no way to prove (#1) that the KJ's intent was to cause harm, especially since they have come out voluntarily and on their own free will. No one has forced them to come out.

The KJ has nothing to worry about as far as a lawsuit. And if someone did try to sue, it would be thrown right out of court. Unless, you've been living under a rock for the past 4 months, everyone in knows that there is a pandemic going on and is aware of the risks of going out. If people are that stupid to congregate in an enclosed public place for hours on end, and they get the virus, they have nobody to blame but themselves.



:!: Alan the reason KJ's have nothing to worry about as far as a lawsuit is concerned is because they are not the deep pockets. The venues in these potential cases would be the deep pockets. So many venues are having money issues, and lawsuits could put them out of business, so the KJ would end up with no gig anyway. While it is true nobody forced them to come out, it is still the responsibility of the business's to provide a safe and secure place of business. If they cannot then they are acting in a reckless manner that endangers the public health and well being. Is that what running a karaoke show consists of today, catering to people stupid enough to come out and support a show?

P.S. On one level you are right Alan, SC found out how hard it was to sue KJ's, and changed their sights to venues. This was concerning piracy. It is quite a different matter when it comes to public health and safety. The way things are set up when it becomes a matter of public health, government does have broad powers to deal with the situation. I think this whole matter might be moot, since I'm convinced we are headed at some point to a second round of lock downs. The National infection rate hit a new high of over 45,000 cases for one day. Those are just the one's we can count, what about the one's that go undetected? Little update dozens of Trumps secret service agents have to self isolate, since two tested positive for corona virus, they all took part in the Tulsa Rally.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:57 am 
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Actually there are a number of ways to factor where they got it by possibly the fact that the bar was the only place where the guidelines were not followed. Multiple cases of people who were there the same night getting the disease, sort of like getting ecoli or salmonella from a restaurant. So yeah there are ways to determine where they got it.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:48 am 
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Due to the fact that the incubation period can be extensive, they are actually unable to figure out exactly where or pinpoint when the exposure occurred.

BTW - contact tracing is extremely flawed as you have to have everyone participate! I am not and I know several hundred others that refuse to!

#3 is where the real issue is - if someone claims they didn't know they are either an idiot or been living off-planet!

#1 Obviously the intent of the venue is to provide service that the customer decided they wanted. The KJ is there to provide entertainment that the customer decided to participate in. Therefore, ultimately it is on the customer for going out!

Why do some locations, such as the rally, decide to have people sign a waiver - Maybe it is to make certain that these individuals realize that it is there choice to be there!

I am not going to worry about some idiot that wants to attempt to sue me or my venue for their decision...

Obviously, people can file a suit all they want. There are lawsuits filed all the time that have no valid grounds just a hope of recovery!


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Phill Cross wrote:
Due to the fact that the incubation period can be extensive, they are actually unable to figure out exactly where or pinpoint when the exposure occurred.

BTW - contact tracing is extremely flawed as you have to have everyone participate! I am not and I know several hundred others that refuse to!

#3 is where the real issue is - if someone claims they didn't know they are either an idiot or been living off-planet!

#1 Obviously the intent of the venue is to provide service that the customer decided they wanted. The KJ is there to provide entertainment that the customer decided to participate in. Therefore, ultimately it is on the customer for going out!

Why do some locations, such as the rally, decide to have people sign a waiver - Maybe it is to make certain that these individuals realize that it is there choice to be there!

I am not going to worry about some idiot that wants to attempt to sue me or my venue for their decision...

Obviously, people can file a suit all they want. There are lawsuits filed all the time that have no valid grounds just a hope of recovery!



:!: Really I don't think it makes much difference about the legal problems reopening poses, since we are headed for a second round of lock down sometime this year. We never really got past the first wave, and we will be running up against the Fall and Winter sooner than we think. With California reporting 7,000 new cases in one day, it would seem we will be closing again. The last to reopen will be the first to be closed, that is the way it usually works. So really all of this will be taken out of our hands, and put where it belongs with the health care professionals!


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:46 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
:!: Really I don't think it makes much difference about the legal problems reopening poses, ...


Well you did in many pages of previous posts. Glad to see you finally turned a corner, albeit like an overloaded tanker ship. Trying to be a guiding light of safety is one thing, but trying to convince other KJs NOT to do what you also did for years is just hypocritical. This pandemic really hasn't changed things as much as most people think it has. At first it did, but now that we've learned the data about who is at risk and what the average person can expect, it's not so scary anymore. I don't think you'll see a complete lockdown again, even if there is a second wave. I think you may see laws where people will still have to social distance and wear masks in places where the vulnerable have to go, like grocery stores etc..., but places like bars will probably lean towards a more "enter at your own risk" mentality, and it would appear (at least here in Baltimore) that most people are completely ok with that. Especially karaoke singers.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Guess what all ages are at risk. Who is affected is changing every day.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:01 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

Well you did in many pages of previous posts. Glad to see you finally turned a corner, albeit like an overloaded tanker ship. Trying to be a guiding light of safety is one thing, but trying to convince other KJs NOT to do what you also did for years is just hypocritical. This pandemic really hasn't changed things as much as most people think it has. At first it did, but now that we've learned the data about who is at risk and what the average person can expect, it's not so scary anymore. I don't think you'll see a complete lockdown again, even if there is a second wave. I think you may see laws where people will still have to social distance and wear masks in places where the vulnerable have to go, like grocery stores etc..., but places like bars will probably lean towards a more "enter at your own risk" mentality, and it would appear (at least here in Baltimore) that most people are completely ok with that. Especially karaoke singers.



:!: You misunderstand, I still believe that legal problems could happen because of reopening, it just doesn't matter since local governments will simply shut down business's that pose a health problem to the public. Sure I hosted for years, but there wasn't any pandemic then. Do you think if I were still in the business, I would be working today, no I would be sitting home, or finding myself another line of work, if I needed the income. If you think you know, or we know everything about this virus, then you are guilty of being arrogant, even health care professionals say they are humbled by this disease. The whole problem was an is that people aren't concerned enough to care about their health or the health of others. There is already talk of another lock down since our daily infection rate is over 45,000 and climbing, while the EU is holding steady at 4,000 per day. Of course there the citizens act responsibly and follow all of the guidelines. There is testing, contact tracing, isolation of infected people, everyone is wearing masks, avoiding large crowds,etc.etc.etc.

Enter at you own risk if you want, just don't expect the hospital to be able to take care of you, since most of ICU's will be full up, and you will have to just die alone, for being foolish. Think about that when you can't breathe, it will be the same as if someone had their knee on your neck.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:37 am 
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:!: To me one of the signs of recovery would be to finally fix our broken health care delivery system. The recent pandemic shows how really fragile it is. Yesterday the current administration submitted a briefs to finally get rid of AHCA aka American Health Care Act. If that were to happen millions of people would be thrown off their health care, at the height of a pandemic. They would lose their rights to be covered for preexisting conditions including corona virus, and keeping children on parents policies until the age of 26. This is a very non feeling thing to do, when we have a modern day plague ravaging our country. What we should do and would be a sign that we are finally going to take care of everyone, is to go whole hog, and finally setup a Public Option.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:44 am 
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:!: It would seem that I am right about states closing down venues once again. The states of Texas and Florida have both again shut down bars and clubs due to spikes in the rates of infections, and the lack of ICU beds to deal with the virus. Opening too soon without proper testing, contact tracing, and isolation seems to be a losing formula. Other states effected are California, Arizona, Utah, North Carolina, Iowa, and others. Bars, clubs and restaurants are among venues who hire karaoke independent contractors, so naturally they won't need hosts when they are closed. I still think we are on the road again to another major shutdown sometime in the Fall or Winter.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:53 am 
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Do you really need to start every message with a yellow exclamation point? Is this your calling card? Does this make you feel more like the real lone ranger?

In keeping with the original topic, yesterday we had our best sales day since February.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:14 am 
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:!: I thought we were looking at signs of recovery? Florida has just closed beaches and is issuing masks to all that want them. It would seem that even the Red States, where the virus is now raging, see they have to once again lock down, and follow the guidelines, most want lifted. We are heading into the Summer where the heat was supposed to contain the virus somewhat. It is not happening and even young people are starting to get sick. When a person becomes infected even though they don't have to go to the hospital and they recover, they can still have scarred lung tissue, that will be with them the rest of their life, if they try and get health insurance, it will be a preexisting condition, and they will be charged more.


8) This use to be my logo, because I live in California, others objected that it was too happy, and that I was pleased about what was happening. So I decided to change it for the duration of the pandemic. Which goes to show you can't please everyone can you? Naturally sales will be good since everything has been shut down, and any sales like any hiring will be seen as an improvement over the total collapse of both sales and employment over the past few months.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:27 am 
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I have come to the conclusion that this virus is not going to stop until it kills us all. And the reason for that is because there is no unity in fighting it. Therefore, there is no reason to stay locked down at home living in fear. That is not living.

So, since it's just a matter of time... we might as well enjoy life until your number is called.

But mark my words... this virus will be apocalyptic. And all because of the stupidity of the human race.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:42 am 
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Alan B wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that this virus is not going to stop until it kills us all. And the reason for that is because there is no unity in fighting it. Therefore, there is no reason to stay locked down at home living in fear. That is not living.

So, since it's just a matter of time... we might as well enjoy life until your number is called.

But mark my words... this virus will be apocalyptic. And all because of the stupidity of the human race.



8) I'm more positive Alan that a vaccine will be found hopefully in the near future. The virus can't kill all of us since at some point enough will be infected that herd immunity will be achieved. Unity is important the EU shows that, their daily infection rate is currently one tenth of ours, while our infection rate keeps moving higher. This is all a waiting game, the trouble is most of us have little patience. WWII took over 3 years for us to finally win, during that whole time the country was unified. The trouble is today's citizen soldier doesn't have the guts to stick it out, like our parents did. Of course they survived The Great Depression as well, talk about hard times. I guess that is why my parents were always so serious.

P.S. The smart play is to sit this dance out, the trouble is many cannot afford not to work, that is why we need to fix the social safety net so all of us can survive until we can resume life as normal. Hopefully the current situation won't be the new normal, if that were to happen then we really would be up against it!


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:39 am 
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Here's the deal...

If all states got together and did the following:

• Mandatory lockdown for 2 weeks. Only exception is going food shopping.
• Mandatory masks when food shopping.

Then, the virus would be gone in 2 weeks. But since that's never going to happen, and there is no unity in fighting this, hundreds of thousands more people will die. Remember, right now there is no cure. No treatment and no vaccine.

Look, we all know that we shouldn't be going out socializing during a pandemic... yet, people are doing so anyway. Just like people know that smoking is no good for you and could kill you, but... people do it anyway. And drinking (alcohol) is the worst thing you can do to your body, but... again, people don't care.

We live in a society where people do what they want to do, regardless of the ramifications. Therefore, I have no doubt in my mind that the Corona Virus will become apocalyptical.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:50 am 
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Alan B wrote:
Here's the deal...

If all states got together and did the following:

• Mandatory lockdown for 2 weeks. Only exception is going food shopping.
• Mandatory masks when food shopping.

Then, the virus would be gone in 2 weeks. But since that's never going to happen, and there is no unity in fighting this, hundreds of thousands more people will die. Remember, right now there is no cure. No treatment and no vaccine.

Look, we all know that we shouldn't be going out socializing during a pandemic... yet, people are doing so anyway. Just like people know that smoking is no good for you and could kill you, but... people do it anyway. And drinking (alcohol) is the worst thing you can do to your body, but... again, people don't care.

We live in a society where people do what they want to do, regardless of the ramifications. Therefore, I have no doubt in my mind that the Corona Virus will become apocalyptical.



:!: Some help is on the way Alan! The state of Florida's Governor has just closed all of the bars and clubs state wide. The Governor of Texas stated if he had any thing to do over, it would be the opening of bars, and is looking at shutting them down state wide. Bars and clubs shutting down will effect the Karaoke hosts that work in them. This is what I meant by legal matters might be moot, that the state and local officials will simply identify dangerous sites as far a being super spreaders, and shut them down, despite what some of the public think. The first duty of government is to protect the public, even despite the fact that some of the public don't want to be protected, the majority do. This reinforces the idea that a public business, cannot pose a menace to the public's health. It might just be that bars and clubs will have to stay shut down for the duration of the pandemic?


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:13 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) This use to be my logo, because I live in California, others objected that it was too happy, and that I was pleased about what was happening. So I decided to change it for the duration of the pandemic. Which goes to show you can't please everyone can you?


You're missing the point. When you're having an in person conversation, do you hold up a ping pong paddle in front of your face for a second before you speak? Why are you making people's eyes have to view something that is completely irrelevant to the conversation?

I don't think anyone here believes it's your "logo". Logos and signatures are placed at the end, or in your avatar, AWAY from the message itself, but definitely not as the first character. It's just weird. It would be like me randomly putting one of my sentences in Russian. это было бы странно. In normal English, sentences don't start with pictures. You're not using it as a cute reference either ;) You're using it at the start of every single message, and it's a bright exclamation point as if you're using it to draw attention to something that is extremely important. By doing it on every message, you're basically saying "everything I say is extremely important, and so important, that I have the right to do something no one else would normally do and something that my high school English teacher would fail me for."

Here's an idea. What do you think about having your words speak for themselves? Let everyone else decide how important they are.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:20 am 
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:!: This really bothers you doesn't it? It is rather a minor point, is it more important the content of what I have been writing?


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