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 Post subject: Re: HD for sale on Ebay
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Alan B wrote:

I really don't know what the answer is and how to stop piracy. I just wish there was a way.

My only suggestion to Mr. Harrington would be to target venues who hire pirates. Get those letters of warning out, make those phone calls and let us help.

You don't have to personally visit every establishment. Most of us know who and where the pirates are in are areas. We can tell you which venues to send letters to. And we can tell you if the venue complied or not.



8) Alan there is no answer to stopping the piracy problem, it's too big, and too ingrained, most people don't see it as piracy, just free stuff. The only way to combat pirate KJ's is to be smarter and better than they are. As a host it is hard to compete if your skills are sub par, especially if the pirate has better equipment and is able to provide their service at a cheap price. Even if Jim were to try and do something, the recent court set backs have shown that trademark infringement is not going to win the day. There is no confusion in the market place, and the pirates are not knocking off imitation discs, there is no place to go with this. Some KJ's have attempted to inform venues in their areas of pirate activities and ended up losing work for their troubles. The only solution is to compete and prove to venue owners you have a superior product, quite frankly what they always ask is if you have a following? Bottom line they want someone who will fill their place and spend money, not sip soda and water all night.


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 Post subject: Re: HD for sale on Ebay
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Kuelman1 wrote:
Well a quick search of ebay turns up many more sellers of these hard drives. Some even brag
and have pictures of Chartbuster and Sound Choice on the monitor. I have reported some of these
in the past to ebay and they would take them down. But none of the eight or nine I reported last month was removed. Who needs craigslist when you can sell your illegal hard drives on ebay with a wider audience. It is not just Karaoke either music tracks, music videos and normally includes software programs as well.


Rather than reporting these, if you would send me the links at jim@phxep.com, I will get them taken down. eBay listens more carefully to the people who own the rights, and we have been stepping up our efforts lately to file formal complaints with eBay.


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 Post subject: Re: HD for sale on Ebay
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:14 pm 
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8) I'm sure Ebay is shaking in their boots. :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy:


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 Post subject: Re: HD for sale on Ebay
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:14 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) So if this type of pirate has no assets to speak of Jim, what kind of assets do you think a lone karaoke host is going to have? By your own admission you pay thousands of dollars to investigate (which by the way I doubt), bring a lawsuit etc.etc.etc. with no way to collect?


It does not cost "thousands of dollars" to investigate a single KJ, and I have never said that it did.

Investigating a KJ is, generally speaking, much easier than investigating a hard drive seller. We do go after KJs, but we also go after the venues that hire them. Hard drive sellers operate largely anonymously, so it takes a huge amount of time and access to expensive databases to track them down effectively. We also have to handle these cases in-house or pay the attorney hourly because of the poor odds of recovery. (Unlike some people, we don't ask our attorneys to work for free on non-revenue cases.) We may be required to post a bond to get our injunction--and that can be anywhere from $1000 to $10,000, and maybe more. All in, we might spend $20,000 to $30,000 to get a paper judgment to stop one hard drive seller. It's just not a productive use of scarce resources in most cases.

The Lone Ranger wrote:
P.S. Personally I have only met one KJ host that SC tried to sue in the Inland Empire, "Out Law Karaoke", when you found out he didn't have a dime you dropped the suit, your statement above shows me you haven't changed your methods. Oh by the way he tried to get a gig from me while I was still in the business, he didn't, he is still playing today up in Banning, probably with the same old illegal hard drive.


We have attorneys actively prosecuting cases against operators and venues in Riverside County. The fact that you've never met the targets means...well, it's a big place.


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 Post subject: Re: HD for sale on Ebay
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:16 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) I'm sure Ebay is shaking in their boots. :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy:


Don't be thick. We're not suing eBay. Unlike some organizations, eBay actually seems to want to cooperate with IP owners to keep pirated materials off their service.


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 Post subject: Re: HD for sale on Ebay
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:36 pm 
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JimHarrington wrote:

It does not cost "thousands of dollars" to investigate a single KJ, and I have never said that it did.

Investigating a KJ is, generally speaking, much easier than investigating a hard drive seller. We do go after KJs, but we also go after the venues that hire them. Hard drive sellers operate largely anonymously, so it takes a huge amount of time and access to expensive databases to track them down effectively. We also have to handle these cases in-house or pay the attorney hourly because of the poor odds of recovery. (Unlike some people, we don't ask our attorneys to work for free on non-revenue cases.) We may be required to post a bond to get our injunction--and that can be anywhere from $1000 to $10,000, and maybe more. All in, we might spend $20,000 to $30,000 to get a paper judgment to stop one hard drive seller. It's just not a productive use of scarce resources in most cases.

The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) I guess your resources are pretty scarce since you have been losing in court lately!


We have attorneys actively prosecuting cases against operators and venues in Riverside County. The fact that you've never met the targets means...well, it's a big place.


8) I'll keep my eyes open for them, I'm sure judge Wright would just love to see another batch of your frivolous lawsuits. :order: :order: :order:


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 Post subject: Re: HD for sale on Ebay
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:22 pm 
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In a recent lawsuit against a venue, the claim is made:
Quote:
72. Upon information and belief, Living S&G’s misconduct has cost Phoenix in excess of $100,000 in revenue from legitimate sources crowded out of the market by their wrongful conduct.

If a single venue conducting karaoke shows is causing that much damage by simply putting on a karaoke show, imagine the multiples of that damage a single hard drive seller is causing with each drive sold.
With that kind of monetary loss I would expect plugging the hole of that money drain to be a priority even if it only results in an injunction to stop the sales.

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