Karaoke Forums

Whether it is service mark registrations or trademark infringement really is that what the court is looking at? PEP's product originally was plastic discs. The question is if there is confusion in the market place? Are people confusing files stored on a PC with the original product? Are the hosts engaged in trying to sell counterfeit plastic discs? The court seems to feel after reading the decision that the answer is no. If the answer is no then PEP no longer has a basis to push it's legal agenda. Maybe it's time to pack it in or maybe go back to actually making something if PEP wants to continue in business?

If you don't understand the difference between karaoke media and karaoke entertainment services, I'm not sure that any amount of explaining will result in your enlightenment.

I guess you couldn't convince the difference to the court either Jim or your claim wouldn't have been turned down. Your suit would have been upheld.

Who, in their right mind, would knowingly misrepresent themselves by calling themselves "Sound Choice Entertainment" or whatever your service mark is? Simply displaying the logo, again, will not cause any confusion to someone who views the trademark, especially if they (the host) already have their own, established service mark.

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DJ Don

Our service mark is simply SOUND CHOICE or the familiar SOUND CHOICE logo, registered for "Entertainment services in the nature of karaoke shows" (two separate registrations, one per mark).

I'll refer you to the text of 15 U.S.C. § 1114, first paragraph:

Any person who shall, without the consent of the registrant—

(a) use in commerce any reproduction, counterfeit, copy, or colorable imitation of a registered mark in connection with the sale, offering for sale, distribution, or advertising of any goods or services on or in connection with which such use is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive; ...

shall be liable in a civil action by the registrant for the remedies hereinafter provided.

Over the course of a typical karaoke show, a typical pirate operator displays our logo between 60 and 90 times, sometimes more. That logo is displayed in connection with the distribution and advertising of karaoke entertainment services (which include hosting, supplying sound equipment, and controlling the operation of the show, among other services) and, in the case of the bar, food and beverage services. While the isolated display of one logo might not give rise to consumer confusion about sponsorship or affiliation, the consistent, nearly exclusive display of our logos while those services are being provided provides a strong suggestion that the operator and/or the bar is affiliated with us.

Just because I drive a Tundra, does not mean that I work for, or am affiliated with Toyota. People aren't stupid Jim. They know that KJ's do NOT work for manufactures. That attempt to suggest they are lead to believe anything different shows your lack of being able to see the trees for the forest.

If you go around dressed in a Toyota shirt, have Toyota signs in your yard, have a Toyota logo as your profile picture on Facebook, show Toyota promotional videos as "home movies," and send out Toyota-logo Christmas cards, people might start to think that you are, in fact, affiliated somehow with Toyota.

If you go to a 4-hour karaoke show, and the host almost always selects the SC version of every song, and shows the logo on his screen 120 times in 4 hours, and, when asked, saying that SC is "usually the best version," in my opinion and in the opinion of a majority of courts that have considered the question, people are likely, in fact, to believe that this host is operating with our approval, either because he bought the music from us or because he got our approval otherwise.

If the host were to show any other manufacturer even once during your , that thought process goes totally out the window. I really think you have your blinders on Jim. And I have NEVER witness any karaoke host say or suggest that they work for, or are affiliated with Sound Choice,,, EVER. I have never seen a host wear a shirt or a hat, or hang a poster even remotely suggesting they are approved by or work for Sound Choice. There might be an occasional certified host that might feel they could advertise that they are certified by one way or another, but even they don't suggest that they are associated with Sound Choice. You are really reaching out there Jimbo. And I have been to literally hundreds of shows in many regions of the country.

I will agree that most hosts like to use Sound Choice because they are some of the best quality tracks out there, you won't get any argument from me on that sentiment. But, there is not one single person that I have ever ran across in all the years, in all the shows, from all the states, that I have gone to, ever wonder if the host worked for Sound Choice. Sorry, it just isn't happening. It's no wonder that your suit failed.

They are also showing during a 4 hour karaoke show, DK, MM, SGB, MRE, Sunfly, etc.etc.etc. I could see Jim that you might have a case if you were hosting a karaoke show, that is in direct competition with the pirates. That they have an unfair business advantage. Unless you are going to get your own rig and start hosting, I don't see where you are going with this. The opinion of the court is quite plain. There is no way you can confuse files stored in a PC with plastic discs produced by your former viable company. The hosts are not trying to sell or distribute cdg's they are merely providing a service. There is no counterfeiting going on here, no fraud, get over it.

My auto mechanic uses many tools when he works on cars. If I see a SNAP-ON Calendar on the wall; I don't think that the mechanic works for SNAP-ON. If I see my mechanic wearing a shirt with the SNAP-ON logo on it; That doesn't mean that he is an employee of SNAP-ON. I have many Budweiser T-shirts and when I wear them; NOBODY thinks that I work for Budweiser....especially when I'm drinking a Coors Light. This is just Kurt and Jim grasping at the final straws that may be out there. There is a sucker born every minute and those are the people that jimbo is trying to fleece. Happy Hunting. Anyone who falls for their B.S. at this point deserves to be fleeced.

With all due respect to your anecdotal experience, that is not the standard.

No one is suggesting that the use of our logo means that a host "works for Sound Choice."

Here is the text from 15 U.S.C. § 1125(a):

(1) Any person who, on or in connection with any goods or services, or any container for goods, uses in commerce any word, term, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof, or any false designation of origin, false or misleading description of fact, or false or misleading representation of fact, which—
(A) is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive as to the affiliation, connection, or association of such person with another person, or as to the origin, sponsorship, or approval of his or her goods, services, or commercial activities by another person, [...]
shall be liable in a civil action by any person who believes that he or she is or is likely to be damaged by such act.

I think that you can recognize that "affiliation, connection, or association" can and does mean more than "works for."

I think that you can also recognize that "origin, sponsorship, or approval or his or her goods, services, or commercial activities" can and does mean more than "employs as an employee."

It's fine for you to be skeptical. The problem is that you are setting up a strawman, then pretending that it's some great feat to knock it down. The law is not as narrowly drawn as you think it is.

Well, with all due respect to your own post, that really doesn't prove anything at all. Even in the eyes of my limited understanding of the "law", what you are saying and what you are attempting to prove in a court of law, in fact DO NOT meet the requirements of the law. Hence, your law suit was dismissed. Sorry if you feel or see thing differently, but I try to look at it as if I were sitting in a jury box and listening to the evidence. And you did not prove that you were "damaged" by any of your claims. The fact is, Sound Choice did it to them self. Whether you choose to believe that or not, is truly irrelevant in the eyes of the court.

I've seen tracks out there that are branded as Rock Band Karaoke that seem to be direct rip-offs of Sound Choice tracks. The Sound Choice logos have all been replaced with Rock Band Karaoke Logos in their place. I'd like to see how that would get ironed out in a court of law. They certainly aren't trying to align themselves with Sound Choice, since the logos are all gone.

My mechanic has an affiliation with SNAP-ON Tools....as a customer. If the SNAP-ON sales person gives him and his employees complimentary T-Shirts for buying his products; wearing said T-shirts is nothing but FREE advertising for SNAP-ON. That is the main reason SNAP-ON gives those T-shirts away for FREE. Sound choice plastered their logo all over their karaoke tracks for the same reason. They wanted consumers to see their name and hopefully recognize it when they went to their local karaoke store. When the local karaoke host plays a Sound Choice track; he is giving Sound Choice FREE advertising and Sound Choice should be thanking him or her. Instead, Sound Choice tries to find a way to file a law suit against that KJ to punish them because they showed the Sound Choice logo. If the same KJ plays the same exact track from a disc instead of his hard drive the same exact logo gets displayed on the screen and no one thinks that the KJ is affiliated with Sound Choice in any other way than being one of their customers. I've been to disc based shows and I've been to computer based shows and I have never been confused as to what their affiliation is to Sound Choice. Sound Choice seems to be on a loooooong losing streak in the court room as of late and I don't think that things are going to change any time soon.

I have several snap-on shirts, and some Craftsman too.
I have several Karaoke Scene hats too. (Avatar)
Oh, wait, I do work here..

Never mind..

So what would you sell me 20' long 1/2" drive Snap-On breaker bar for.... it's pretty clear you work them ..... don't you. After all you have a shirt????

If you don't sell me one I am going to form a protest group, and I don't even know what I am protesting. I am confused

Sounds like you may be female..

Why would that be an assumption? I'd just assume he likes Toyota. No one that worked at Toyota would do all that IMO>. I personally know people that do all that (some even go further) with Chevy, Ford & Dodge logos because they simply LOVE the products, they have no affiliation other than the love of their product.

Why would all of a sudden people be confused and assume that i'm a part of, affiliated, work for or anything else of Sound Choice simply because i've used their products for 25+ years when they never once assumed that before? I've used many many other brands as well (just like every other KJ around here).

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

This is the problem Jim you can't even convince your supporters that this legal argument has merit. How are you ever going to convince a judge? I think it's time to admit you have taken this legal process as far as it can go. If it's not even trademark infringement, then this latest legal wrinkle isn't going to fly either. Without the threat of legal action then the sale of what products you still have will dry up. Looks like this might be the year PEP bites the dust.

The key to this is "shall be liable in a civil action by any person who believes that he or she is or is likely to be damaged by such act".

Jim you know as a lawyer that a person can be sued aka a civil action by anyone. The burden is on the plaintiff to prove damage was done. Lately you have done a terrible job in convincing the court that PEP has been damaged. That is why your lawsuits have been falling on their collective faces.