Karaoke Forums

Need help, started at a new bar approximately 3 months ago, owners stopped my services for approximately a month because of problems they had with a transfer of business and I resumed holding shows again about 3 weeks ago.  They cut me back from Wednesday and Friday nights to Friday nights only, which is fine with me, I have a full time job.  The problem is they are not paying me what they said they would.  I realize it has been slow but it takes time to build it up, especially when you stopped it for a month.  One of the brothers said that they were paying me less because he decided he to buy the patrons drinks in order to keep them there on a Wednesday night.  This is seriously upsetting me and I don’t want to be mean.  I know what the KJs make in my area because I do sub for a long time KJ when he needs help.  Its not like I am able to pocket any of this money either because I am continually putting it back into my system.  I really don’t know how to handle this without being prepared to walk.  This is my first gig on my own and I really want this to work.  Also, they wait until the end of the night to pay me after I pack up.  I don’t have the energy to argue then and I have already performed my kjing services.  What do I do?

Stick to your guns and explain to them....  Say you go to buy a new car, the dealership is not going to lower the price just becasue you are'nt making as much money as you did 3 months ago.  Or did the price for liquor that they buy go down becasue they are not making enough money?

If you have a good repore with your competion in the area, blackball the bar, and go elsewhere.

JMHO

Oh yeah, GET PAID BEFORE THE GIG STARTS.  The way they are sounding they might try to screw you out of what you are going to get paid if you don't draw a big enough crowd.  This is a PRIME example of a reason it is a necesity to have a contract for services.

I agree with all these points and I need to add that you might want to plan on walking. If you aren't afraid to lose your gig you will have better leverage in negotiating.

This is a tough question not totally knowing your situation.
How much are they shorting you? How many hours do you play?

Well regardless  - shorting you money without first coming to you and
telling you, is not good business. I would walk.


If you are not willing to walk I would go to them and suggest a compromise. The problem being if they don't follow through again you should walk. How do you trust them after they have already shafted you. How about a contract?

Now if I really didn't want to quit I would agree to a small fee decrease
for a certain amount of time then they should pay you the originally discussed amount. Unfortunately sometimes it takes up to a year to build a crowd. Maybe suggest advertising outside the bar instead of buying people drinks to stay.

This has to be hard for you because it doesn't sound like the bar owners are very bright.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I know you don't want to be mean, I respect that. Remember that learning to negotiate your terms is not mean depending on how you handle it.

You are going to get plenty of good suggestions here.

Good luck to you kimbers615. I don't know you but you seem to have integrity. That makes me think you can learn to handle this part of the business. It may be tough at first but it is a very important step.

I don't do much Kjing anymore.....they'd give me $200(gripe about it too) for 4 hours on friday, and I'd work my tail off......during the same time the bartenders/waitress's would be knocking down between 3 and 5 hundred dollars in tips.......I didn't see them bring in all the equiptment I had to bring in, and then take down.......kjing ain't worth it......

NEGOTIATING with the kj is one thing... witholding is yet another entirely.

If they want to withold monies due, then that is in essence, breaking the agreement. If they want to renegotiate it, fine, but they need to go to you and say "Man, we're really in a tight spot... I don't want to get rid of karaoke, but here's the situation..."

but just not paying you what you're due? forget that!

granted that they've explained themselves, but it's a two way agreement in the FIRST place. They should have told you ahead of time, not done this Mob-type of explainations.

Frankly, if they have the right to change the deal, so do you. I'd say walk!

Whenever I get a gig, I tell them my price.     I am willing to work with them to build a crowd.     If you go in low and then try to raise the price, you're screwed.   They never want to give you a raise.     They must know the amount of money that will be the final price, after you give them the money break, during the crowd building phase.    I usually give them a 4 week break.    I have given some money back if it's been really dead.    I do not feel I should.   It's not my fault nobody showed.   But I do it for the long term.    I know that I will be making about $9,000 from them for the year.   So a little here and there, I can live with.   I don't like it, but I live with it.

I have never been afraid to walk out on a jerk.   Find the nearest bar to them and give them a starting deal they can not refuse.   Tell them they will have a crowd that is already to go.    The singers should follow you one more block.

wow, i cna't bevlieve they'd even consider paying less than what was agreed upon.  you say you're like me and have a day job, so i assume the love of money is not the reason you kj.  still, if someone agreed to pay one thing and paid a different amount, i'd definitely have something to say to them about it.  if it happened again, i just wouldn't show up the next gig.  childish, yes, but it would get the point across when patrons started leaving because there was no karaoke.  if they don't want to do what they agreed to do, you shouldn't either.  of course, i'm the type of person who would have my equipment in the truck, but i'd be in the bar drinking a cold beer instead of kj-ing.  when the owner asked what was up, i'd tell him, no dinero, no trabajo!

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All work and no play make Homer something something

You know before you quit (and i would), the next night you play, stop early.  If they can shortchange you money, then shortchange them time.

There's always work out there, you just have to hit the pavement.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Kimbers, get your agreement in writing (contract) like Babs mentioned.  Keep good records.  Small claims court for difference plus time & fees.  Let them know up front that that is the way you will handle future "irregularities" in payment.  Their financial woes are not yours.  As was mentioned by Twansenne I don't believe for a minute that their supplier is giving them a discount on the booze.

Unfortunately for the amount of money involved, even getting a small claims judgment against them for the money they owe you isn't going to be worth it for the amount of time, money, and aggravation you'd have to go through to collect it.  It's better just to take the hard, but fair, course: pay me what we agreed on or you'll never see me again.  If they screw you, cut your losses and walk.

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Reward: nine yen in drawer.

I have had a similiar situation on the past - Agreed on a price and then at the end of a SLOW night was SHORT CHANGED by the Manager.  The next day I called the owner up and explained we had a price and that was it.   He mentioned he was trying Karaoke out and wanted to see if it PICKED UP.  I explained as a Business Owner that the RISK of such a thing was HIS !!! not mine --I get paid for my services PERIOD.  

Needless to say I don't work there anymore

Make a STAND..but then be prepared to WALK  

I have never done any kjing or djing so I dont have any personal experience in the matter but I think if I was going to be doing something like that, I would have a written contract.  I say this so often, I really respect what you guys do.  I have it easy. I book a show and get on stage.  I have not had the problem of gettting paid for a show.  I think I am going to start providing a contract for my shows.  If people will cheat you out of money, they would cheat any of us.  It is better to head off something like this before it ever gets started.  I know I would walk if someone did me that way.  I give my best when I do a show and I expect the establishments best in return.--Mike

good luck on a written contract nowadays.

That's the reality to the theory that SOUNDS good.

Fisrt of all.   Was there a crowd?     That will determine the answer.   To an extent.    Are you willing to work with the bar owner, to keep your job?    I have taken a pay cut on really slow nights.   Not because I wanted to.   I did it to maitain a working relationship.    You can tell if they made money or not.   If they only take in $100 you can not expect to charge them full money.      It's not suppose to be that way.  It's not my fault if nobody shows up.


There are lots of reasons for a dead night.   Major sporting events on TV.   Music award shows.    Carnival in town.   Vacations.   Graduations.    High gas prices.   No Smoking Laws.    Drunk driving laws.    End of the month, everybody's broke.     Bad weather.    None are my fault.    Unless I suck.      

I agree everyone should be paid full money for a complete nights work.   If I think I'm going to be shorted, I may play less.   Close up a little early.    I don't really like doing it.    Short money, short time.    If we are in the probationary period and I see it's going to be dead and I'm not going to get full money as part of that period, I'll stop exactly on time.

It all boils down to how much you are willing to put up with.   If you need the money, shut up and build the crowd.      Bar owners like to pay for results.    They look at you as something taking money from their wallet.      Not as a potential money maker.      No matter how much you bring in.

If it is
a private function I would insist on a contract and money up front.

I agree unfortunately contracts and bar owners don't mix.   Bars tend to live by their own rules. Don't get me wrong I think you should at least try to get them to sign one.
At the very least, this bar in particular, get them to sign something even if it is a hand written contract of monies to be paid. They have already proven to be dishonest. A nice compromise may simply be a pay cut in writing for a short amount of time then your increase on a particualr date. I'm only suggesting this because you do not want to quit. Do I think if they break the contract you'll ever see the money - probably not, but it may be just what you need to keep them honest.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

In the future I personally plan to do a more detailed "sales presentation"

Slow Nights should definately be discussed in advance - every place and every KJ gets them from time to time.  I have in the past at one venue worked half night for half pay ( which I don't have a problem with occasionally) . It's better to discuss all UP FRONT and have a full understanding with management regarding PAY etc etc.

LIVE AND LEARN

One of my competiors, did karaoke at "my place" on a Sat. Nite (I do it there every Thrs&Fri).  Anywho he did it for a base pay of $50, + 10% of the till from when he started till he ended.  He made $65.  

He used to gig there every thrs & fri, but people started to complain about his sound (sucks), his song selection (newest song is 3 y.o.), playing rotation favorites, and that he got sloppy drunk too.  Bar owner approached us, and he got fired and we got the gig.  He's desprate and about to go under.  HE has 2 gigs right now, one is ever other sat, and the oter is once a month.  I am thinking of approaching the every other saturday bar, and see if I can get in there.  Basically people are complaing about him for the same reasons as before.

See the jerks put themslves out of business all the time.   It's just not fast enough.  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO