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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:11 pm 
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I'll be honest here. For a place that makes any money, I would probably be willing to maybe do at the most a month's worth of shows free to show what I am capable of doing. After that I would either go a week away and then re-approach them at my minimum price, set just below what I really think that I am worth which from the beginning of my experience, I have always been laughed out of the door, told that I could be the best host out there and never get that rate. Probably the reason I have been willing to take what I got because I always felt that some pay was better than no pay.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:09 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
I'll be honest here. For a place that makes any money, I would probably be willing to maybe do at the most a month's worth of shows free to show what I am capable of doing. After that I would either go a week away and then re-approach them at my minimum price, set just below what I really think that I am worth which from the beginning of my experience, I have always been laughed out of the door, told that I could be the best host out there and never get that rate. Probably the reason I have been willing to take what I got because I always felt that some pay was better than no pay.

Danny, this is what happens when KJ's, such as Lone Ranger, decide to work for free or a very small amount of money. It's setting a precedent. It's letting bar owners know that karaoke is cheap entertainment and that hosts don't deserve to be paid a fair amount for their services.

Me and mrscott have been trying to get into LR's idiotic brain that by working for free would only be hurting KJ's and the industry as a whole. The repercussions are exactly what you describe... the bar owner laughed you out the door and said no matter how good you are, you ain't getting paid your going rate.

You can thank LR for contributing to this mentality that bar owners have. Remember, word gets around. Bar owners know each other. For example, a bar owner in Florida might have a friend in Connecticut that owns a bar... and they talk! And they find out how much each other is paying for karaoke.

It's very hard trying to get a bar owner to pay you $150 when he knows that other places are getting the entertainment very cheap or free. And whether you are providing Karaoke or DJ dance night, either way, you are still providing a service. And if people come out and spend money on food and drinks, the bar is profiting from your service.

The whole purpose of you being hired is to bring in customers and make the bar money, in which case, you should be fairly compensated. $150 is not too much to ask for and has become the going rate. But thanks to people like LR, it's getting harder to get that price, no matter how good you are.

LR is an idiot. What you describe is a result of what happens when you have people like LR hosting for free.... even though the bar is making money. That's just not right. He's hurting KJ's and making it nearly impossible to command a going rate. He's more concerned with his ego then fellow KJ's. He is another bad apple on the tree.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:53 am 
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The problem is that the president was already set before I even got started where I am.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:38 am 
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Alan how many times do I have to tell you that I'm not doing Karaoke shows, I'm DJ not KJ ! This is dancing not singing, you do know the difference don't you? That aside last night was a bit slower beginning, since this is the first Saturday regular show for the VFW. They usually rent their hall out on Saturday if they can, I'm just filling the gaps between their bookings. Fortunately their bookings are few a far between, I can let the dancers know ahead of time if I will be blacked out ahead of time. This lack of regular weekly show might be problematic going forward. You need to get over Alan that I'm competing with KJ's I'm not. What I am trying to do is broaden the customer base by appealing to those who don't like karaoke, but do like to dance.


P.S. I just have one question, the ideal decibel level should be somewhere around 80 to 90 for a venue, I'm using my decibel electronic meter reader, it is clocking in at 67 to 74 decibel's, so why is the music too loud for some? I have the problem with the music too loud with the EV-50, I have no complaints with the Bose, and can play it louder?

Alan just remember money is not the root of all evil, but rather it is the love of money that is the root of all evil.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:30 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
P.S. I just have one question, the ideal decibel level should be somewhere around 80 to 90 for a venue, I'm using my decibel electronic meter reader, it is clocking in at 67 to 74 decibel's, so why is the music too loud for some? I have the problem with the music too loud with the EV-50, I have no complaints with the Bose, and can play it louder?

For one thing, the Evolve 50 is twice as powerful as the Bose. The Evolve 50 also has a higher SPL than the Bose so that may explain it. With that said, there's always going to be some people that will complain that it's too loud no matter how low your playing it. So, if the majority of people are enjoying the music, and not complaining that it's too loud, ignore the rest.

The Evolve 50 sounds best when played loud. The louder you play it, the better it sounds.

Here's a tip...

On the Evolve 50: Choose "Music" and leave everything else at the default settings of "0". Use your mixer to adjust the sound, such as Bass, Treble, Mid, Volume, etc. if needed. If you need more loudness, increase the volume on the speaker. But you will be controlling everything with your mixer.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:50 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
P.S. I just have one question, the ideal decibel level should be somewhere around 80 to 90 for a venue, I'm using my decibel electronic meter reader, it is clocking in at 67 to 74 decibel's, so why is the music too loud for some? I have the problem with the music too loud with the EV-50, I have no complaints with the Bose, and can play it louder?

For one thing, the Evolve 50 is twice as powerful as the Bose. The Evolve 50 also has a higher SPL than the Bose so that may explain it. With that said, there's always going to be some people that will complain that it's too loud no matter how low your playing it. So, if the majority of people are enjoying the music, and not complaining that it's too loud, ignore the rest.

The Evolve 50 sounds best when played loud. The louder you play it, the better it sounds.

Here's a tip...

On the Evolve 50: Choose "Music" and leave everything else at the default settings of "0". Use your mixer to adjust the sound, such as Bass, Treble, Mid, Volume, etc. if needed. If you need more loudness, increase the volume on the speaker. But you will be controlling everything with your mixer.


I agree with Alan on what to set your speakers at. If you want more bass, then switch it to "club", but still keep everything at zero.

You will never please everyone. Someone will always complain. So you do your best to minimize the complaints by keeping it basically "static" and use your mixer to make adjustments.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:05 am 
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Once more into the breach, another first time gig tonight. This time it is the local American Legion, which once I had ties with. Now I'm no longer a member of that post but belong to The California Department Administrative Post. That way I stay out of local post politics, and can still be a member. It will once again be a DPN with no karaoke. Just a mic set up to make announcements. This venue is not ideal it is smaller, smaller dance floor, I will go with the Bose tonight and see what happens. So far I have been successful in switching gears from karaoke to dance, we will see if my luck holds. More later!


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:07 am 
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Like promised I am giving you more info on my enterprise. The American Legion gig was slow also but I did get some dancers, so it appears that maybe we will be trying this on a permanent basis, on Tuesdays instead of Wednesday. So far so good, I will be doing my second Moose show as a DJ tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:15 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Like promised I am giving you more info on my enterprise.

I don't think anybody really cares about your "enterprise" and you working for free.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:18 am 
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Alan B wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Like promised I am giving you more info on my enterprise.

I don't think anybody really cares about your "enterprise" and you working for free.


Correctomundo!! If it's for free, then there is NO enterprise.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:50 am 
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This is where you are both wrong anytime you undertake any action it is an enterprise, whether it is for money or not. Enterprise does not convey profit only, it also stands for carrying forth any type of policy or program. The word Enterprise means a certain amount of risk involved with the venture, and can be applied to many actions taken by an individual.

That being said last night again we had a full house of dancers, and money was made by the Moose Lodge, so my enterprise aka charity work aka dance parties have been a success, now I have three non-profit venues signed up.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:20 am 
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Tonight is the first night of my new gig on a regular basis at the American Legion, so far the response has been positive, hopefully we will be coming out of this pandemic sometime next year. The main problem is those who still have not been vaccinated. Japan is now at 70% vaccination and their numbers have come down, Also Portugal is at 98% vaccination rate, both countries are back to normal.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:35 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
That being said last night again we had a full house of dancers, and money was made by the Moose Lodge, so my enterprise aka charity work aka dance parties have been a success, now I have three non-profit venues signed up.

The fact remains that you are providing free entertainment, in which these venues are profiting nicely. You may say that it's not karaoke but it's in the same category. Most bar owners refer to us as DJ's, whether we're doing karaoke or playing dance music.

You are still hurting the industry and fellow KJ's/DJ's by working for free. The thing is, these places are making money, you're not. They obviously don't need your charity. They can afford to pay for entertainment.

So, please... charge for your services and donate the money to a homeless shelter, the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, etc. You may not need it but these places do.

What you're doing is very foolish. And you're being taken advantage of by places who can definitely afford to pay for entertainment.

So, again... please accept payment for your services and help out someone who is really in need, and get off your self-centered ego trip.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:11 am 
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If they were really KJ's in need they would hustle and set up their own gigs. I'm sort of like the little red hen in the kids story book. No one is really willing to help make the bread, but all are ready to eat the bread. In much the same way there are hosts willing to take over existing successful programs, set up by other hosts, very few create their own gigs. When I decide to quit later on you can bet there will be those lined up to take advantage of the slots I have brought into being.

P.S. who has the bigger ego those who seek no reward, or those who feel they should always make the big bucks? Who is more self centered those who give to others, or those who only think of material gain, before they do anything? The bottom line is if I was charging up the wazoo for this service you wouldn't have a problem, your only problem is I'm acting as a member volunteer, not charging during a health emergency.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:47 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
I'm acting as a member volunteer, not charging during a health emergency.

Really? Then tell me, how come these very same clubs that are making money off of you are charging members and guests for food and drinks? They're not giving it away for free just because as you put it: there's a health emergency. Nope, Every business is still charging customers for it's goods and services. Some are even charging more. They are still in business to make money and the pandemic didn't change that.

Sorry but your "health emergency" logic doesn't work with me. If the lodge was giving away free food and drinks, and not making any money at all, then you might be able to justify you donating your services to them. But under the current situation, that is not the case.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:47 am 
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Lone Ranger, I'm going to put a little scenario out for you to ponder.

What if you asked the bar/lodge to donate to real charities the money that a regular host would be making. That way you would be off the hook for actually receiving ANY pay at all. Then your "feel goods" can be met. Maybe you could even designate where the money goes. But I will bet dollars to donuts they would tell you that they already give to charities. And that the money they make from your "enterprise" is already being used for operating/overhead costs. I can almost guarantee that they are NOT donating as much as you would like to believe, and that is because they don't want to be bothered with the paperwork. But someone there is benefiting from your "generosity", that much is certain. Ask yourself who that might be. Your benevolence is truly being taken advantage of, that is obvious to everyone except yourself.

Bottom line, if you turned over your "enterprise" to someone who could actually benefit from it becoming successful, if it ever did, then you would be doing a much bigger service to our industry, whether it's DJ work or KJ work, it's all the same entertainment. It's not ego to be profitable, it's smart.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:16 pm 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
When I decide to quit later on you can bet there will be those lined up to take advantage of the slots I have brought into being.

and the venue will offer $0 pay because they have been trained that great entertainment is free.

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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:52 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
When I decide to quit later on you can bet there will be those lined up to take advantage of the slots I have brought into being.

and the venue will offer $0 pay because they have been trained that great entertainment is free.


The host could always say no!


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:00 am 
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mrscott wrote:
Lone Ranger, I'm going to put a little scenario out for you to ponder.

What if you asked the bar/lodge to donate to real charities the money that a regular host would be making. That way you would be off the hook for actually receiving ANY pay at all. Then your "feel goods" can be met. Maybe you could even designate where the money goes. But I will bet dollars to donuts they would tell you that they already give to charities. And that the money they make from your "enterprise" is already being used for operating/overhead costs. I can almost guarantee that they are NOT donating as much as you would like to believe, and that is because they don't want to be bothered with the paperwork. But someone there is benefiting from your "generosity", that much is certain. Ask yourself who that might be. Your benevolence is truly being taken advantage of, that is obvious to everyone except yourself.

Bottom line, if you turned over your "enterprise" to someone who could actually benefit from it becoming successful, if it ever did, then you would be doing a much bigger service to our industry, whether it's DJ work or KJ work, it's all the same entertainment. It's not ego to be profitable, it's smart.


Been there done that MR.SCOTT, when I retired the first time all of the gigs I had developed did go to working KJ's that got paid what I did when I left, except for the ELK's Lodge, who decided to go the member volunteer route. We don't live in a vacuum, neither does the non-profits, if they were to all disappear you would see how much they do for local communities. Especially the Moose's work with orphaned and abandoned children, the various Veteran organizations making sure Vets are represented, and get their earned benefits, Shriner's and St. Jude's helping children who can't afford medical treatment, the list goes on and on. I didn't realize how short sighted some of us can be, how selfish, not caring about the forgotten man, that even Trump forgot about, after bringing him up during the last election.


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 Post subject: Re: The Game's Afoot
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:34 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
mrscott wrote:
Lone Ranger, I'm going to put a little scenario out for you to ponder.

What if you asked the bar/lodge to donate to real charities the money that a regular host would be making. That way you would be off the hook for actually receiving ANY pay at all. Then your "feel goods" can be met. Maybe you could even designate where the money goes. But I will bet dollars to donuts they would tell you that they already give to charities. And that the money they make from your "enterprise" is already being used for operating/overhead costs. I can almost guarantee that they are NOT donating as much as you would like to believe, and that is because they don't want to be bothered with the paperwork. But someone there is benefiting from your "generosity", that much is certain. Ask yourself who that might be. Your benevolence is truly being taken advantage of, that is obvious to everyone except yourself.

Bottom line, if you turned over your "enterprise" to someone who could actually benefit from it becoming successful, if it ever did, then you would be doing a much bigger service to our industry, whether it's DJ work or KJ work, it's all the same entertainment. It's not ego to be profitable, it's smart.


Been there done that MR.SCOTT, when I retired the first time all of the gigs I had developed did go to working KJ's that got paid what I did when I left, except for the ELK's Lodge, who decided to go the member volunteer route. We don't live in a vacuum, neither does the non-profits, if they were to all disappear you would see how much they do for local communities. Especially the Moose's work with orphaned and abandoned children, the various Veteran organizations making sure Vets are represented, and get their earned benefits, Shriner's and St. Jude's helping children who can't afford medical treatment, the list goes on and on. I didn't realize how short sighted some of us can be, how selfish, not caring about the forgotten man, that even Trump forgot about, after bringing him up during the last election.


Sorry, I ain't buying what you or they are selling. I have seen it first hand how some of these places operate, and how they do business isn't all what they are saying they are doing. They are making money. Simple as that. What you are doing is feeding their cash cow. I don't know how you cannot see that!!! And in the process you are putting your middle finger up at all of the karaoke industry. You should be totally ashamed of what you are doing. That is how I see it.


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