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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:36 am 
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Alan B wrote:
I just read that the Surgeon General said that if everyone (key word: "everyone") wore a mask and practiced social distancing, this would be gone in 2 to 3 weeks.


It's never going to be completely gone and I doubt they claimed that. Until most of the strong are exposed, it will have the power to randomly start a wave at any time. Until the majority are exposed to either the virus or a vaccine, we will all continue to be potential carriers until our bodies have the tools to not be. Until a vaccine is created, the vulnerable need to be careful because clearly the majority of the healthy people aren't too worried about spreading it.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Why not? If us in Maryland can open bars and still have hospitalizations going down, all while Florida has opposite numbers going in the wrong direction, it certainly makes sense to apply rules as they are needed and where they are needed. If Floridians act like idiots, us Marylanders shouldn't have to pay the price for their stupidity.

Please compare stats. These are today's numbers compiled by the same people... The New York Times. I realize Florida's number are rising, but they are still below Maryland's average per 100,000 cases and deaths. Florida has almost 4 times as many people.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:58 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Why not? If us in Maryland can open bars and still have hospitalizations going down, all while Florida has opposite numbers going in the wrong direction, it certainly makes sense to apply rules as they are needed and where they are needed. If Floridians act like idiots, us Marylanders shouldn't have to pay the price for their stupidity.

Please compare stats. These are today's numbers compiled by the same people... The New York Times. I realize Florida's number are rising, but they are still below Maryland's average per 100,000 cases and deaths. Florida has almost 4 times as many people.


I'm not sure what your point is, or how it contradicts what I said. Florida's numbers are going up and I still don't think people in other states should have to pay a price for the stupidity of another state.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:59 am 
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I think all of us in the karaoke business, from the KJs to the manufacturers, need to be at least a little grateful to the karaoke singers out there. They could have all played it safe and stayed home. Singing into a microphone that gets passed around throughout the night, isn't exactly the safest thing to do when any sickness is going around. They could have all cowered at home and literally sunk our entire industry, but they didn't. When the venues started opening back up, the singers came back, and not just a few.

To all the singers out there, thank you for not being afraid. You're all heroes in my eyes. :beermates:


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I just read that the Surgeon General said that if everyone (key word: "everyone") wore a mask and practiced social distancing, this would be gone in 2 to 3 weeks.


It's never going to be completely gone and I doubt they claimed that.

Read it for yourself....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/surge ... d=msedgntp

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Singing into a microphone that gets passed around throughout the night, isn't exactly the safest thing to do when any sickness is going around.

Neither is going out to a bar where people and/or the bar owner aren't taking precautions. Not only is your risk of getting infected a lot greater than staying home but the chances of you coming in contact with someone in the bar who has it is very likely.

So, singers coming out to bars for karaoke, IMO, is only contributing to the spread of the virus and that's nothing to be thankful for.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I just read that the Surgeon General said that if everyone (key word: "everyone") wore a mask and practiced social distancing, this would be gone in 2 to 3 weeks.


It's never going to be completely gone and I doubt they claimed that.

Read it for yourself....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/surge ... d=msedgntp


I was right. He never said it would be gone. You're the one who didn't read it. The surgeon general said, and I quote directly "Together we can turn this thing around in just two to three weeks if everyone does their part". How do you equate "turn this thing around" with your words "this would be gone". "turn around" and "gone" are completely different. At least with the version of English I've been using.

AGAIN, it's never going to be completely gone, and now I know the surgeon general did not say it would.

Come on Alan, I know you can do your homework better than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:52 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I just read that the Surgeon General said that if everyone (key word: "everyone") wore a mask and practiced social distancing, this would be gone in 2 to 3 weeks.


It's never going to be completely gone and I doubt they claimed that.

Read it for yourself....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/surge ... d=msedgntp


I was right. He never said it would be gone. You're the one who didn't read it. The surgeon general said, and I quote directly "Together we can turn this thing around in just two to three weeks if everyone does their part". How do you equate "turn this thing around" with your words "this would be gone". "turn around" and "gone" are completely different. At least with the version of English I've been using.

AGAIN, it's never going to be completely gone, and now I know the surgeon general did not say it would.

Come on Alan, I know you can do your homework better than that.

OK, maybe not totally gone but I'm sure it would be reduced to insignificant levels. But again, in order for that to occur, everyone would have to do their part. And since that's never going to happen, you are correct... it's NEVER going to be completely gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
I think all of us in the karaoke business, from the KJs to the manufacturers, need to be at least a little grateful to the karaoke singers out there. They could have all played it safe and stayed home. Singing into a microphone that gets passed around throughout the night, isn't exactly the safest thing to do when any sickness is going around. They could have all cowered at home and literally sunk our entire industry, but they didn't. When the venues started opening back up, the singers came back, and not just a few.

To all the singers out there, thank you for not being afraid. You're all heroes in my eyes. :beermates:

those heroes are the reason bars are closed down again.
those heroes are the reason numbers are spiking again.
those heroes are the reason the hospitals are filled again.
those heroes are the reason ICU beds are all gone.
Those heroes are the reason states are prepping for lockdown again.
if they had "been afraid" as you put it, we would be getting ready to open safely by now.

now bars are closed a second time after just spending immense amounts of money to restock which many can not afford to do a second time. if people had stayed home like they were supposed to in the first place, and worn masks when they did go out, bars would not be dying. now those bars people flocked to will close for good.
i just lost 3 nights to venues who said they can not afford to restock a second time so have to close for good.
reopening as soon as they did is what will be sinking our industry.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:03 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
I think all of us in the karaoke business, from the KJs to the manufacturers, need to be at least a little grateful to the karaoke singers out there. They could have all played it safe and stayed home. Singing into a microphone that gets passed around throughout the night, isn't exactly the safest thing to do when any sickness is going around. They could have all cowered at home and literally sunk our entire industry, but they didn't. When the venues started opening back up, the singers came back, and not just a few.

To all the singers out there, thank you for not being afraid. You're all heroes in my eyes. :beermates:

those heroes are the reason bars are closed down again.
those heroes are the reason numbers are spiking again.
those heroes are the reason the hospitals are filled again.
those heroes are the reason ICU beds are all gone.
Those heroes are the reason states are prepping for lockdown again.
if they had "been afraid" as you put it, we would be getting ready to open safely by now.

now bars are closed a second time after just spending immense amounts of money to restock which many can not afford to do a second time. if people had stayed home like they were supposed to in the first place, and worn masks when they did go out, bars would not be dying. now those bars people flocked to will close for good.
i just lost 3 nights to venues who said they can not afford to restock a second time so have to close for good.
reopening as soon as they did is what will be sinking our industry.

I totally agree with everything you've said. Bars should NOT have reopened when they did. This is not the time to be gathering in a confined space filled with people, as most bars are. In addition, many bar owners as well as it's patrons, are not following any of the guidelines as they apply to bars/restaruants. And so, you have a recipe for disaster.

The customers who have gone back to packed bars without taking any precautions such as frequently washing your hands, keeping 6 feet apart from people, and wearing masks, are not heros... they're morons.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:32 pm 
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This all goes back to one fact, you can't reopen the economy until you have the health part of this problem addressed. That means testing, contact tracing, and self isolation. If you cannot get these three things done, then the rest of this is just "sound and fury signifying nothing". Also wearing masks, distancing, and washing hands frequently. You are just fooling yourselves, prolonging the agony everyone has to endure. Going back to a saying from Teddy Roosevelt "What can't be cured must be endured".


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:29 am 
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Alan B wrote:
I just read that the Surgeon General said that if everyone (key word: "everyone") wore a mask and practiced social distancing, this would be gone in 2 to 3 weeks.

It's a simple fix, right? And we all want things to go back to normal, right?

Well, that won't happen since people are idiots. They are self centered morons. If everyone bucked up and sacrificed for a couple of weeks, we can nip this in the butt. But people would rather do what they want instead of coming together and doing what's necessary.

We the people, have the power to end this pandemic. But again, it's never going to happen because the human race is the most stupidest specie on the planet... therefore, it will continue to spread and take many more lives.

Totally agree. Americans would rather ignore the order of the inalienable rights of the Declaration of Independence than put life before liberty like it's listed. But then again what is your freedom really worth if you're dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:38 am 
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mrmarog wrote:
Bob Latshaw wrote:
Why not? If us in Maryland can open bars and still have hospitalizations going down, all while Florida has opposite numbers going in the wrong direction, it certainly makes sense to apply rules as they are needed and where they are needed. If Floridians act like idiots, us Marylanders shouldn't have to pay the price for their stupidity.

Please compare stats. These are today's numbers compiled by the same people... The New York Times. I realize Florida's number are rising, but they are still below Maryland's average per 100,000 cases and deaths. Florida has almost 4 times as many people.


Mrmarog Florida yesterday Sunday broke the existing daily record for new infections 15,000. New York held that record before with 12,000 new infections for a single day. Your Governor Ron wants to reopen schools next month, really? While children might be at less risk there is still a risk, and what about senior teachers and other support staff that will come in contact with the virus? Many leaders of the Republican Party say they will not attend the convention in your state later, do they know something? The reason the death rate is down in Florida is because the state has not really been honest, and forthright in giving an accurate count, of the the number of deaths, due to the pandemic, they have been cooking the books. One further fact is you now have over 18,000 citizens of Florida in the hospital due to Covid-19, it is coming close to maxing out the capacity to care for those who need a hospital bed.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:21 am 
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Arizona and Texas have put out the call for refrigerated trucks again. the morgues are overfilled so they need room to put all the bodies.
could you imagine what it would be like if this was real and not some liberal/media hoax?

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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:49 am 
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Of course the president will continue to say we are doing great. Even though he had to cancel his New Hampshire rally, he said because of bad weather, actually it was because his own supporters weren't going to show up. He insists that schools be reopened even if it puts children, staff, and families at risk, nothing is more important than not making him look bad, weak, incompetent etc.etc.etc. He and his minions have been publicly attacking Dr. Fauci, in hopes of discrediting his message about a possible second wave and shut down. Actually we are still riding the first wave, the virus is pushing us, we do not have a handle on it. We won't until people man up and become adults about this pandemic. There is no quick fix, Trump lacks any ability to deal with the situation, since he has been caught lying to the American people over 20,000 times. He is like the little boy who cried wolf, the wolf is here and no one believes him. That is except for his die hard base.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:57 am 
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More evidence of no quick fix is L.A. once again facing a total shutdown. We have not learned from our mistakes and are doomed to repeat history in rather a short period of time. There can be little doubt that there can be no economic recovery, until we get a handle on the pandemic. That will probably only happen when an effective vaccine has been developed, some time next year. Until then all we can do is shutdown, social distance, wear masks, wash hands, test, contact trace and isolate the infected. This means unfortunately bars and restaurants will have to remain closed, hosts will not be able to engage in super spreader activity. It is the only way to bring down the numbers so our hospitals are not overwhelmed, and doctors have to start deciding who gets help and who doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:10 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
those heroes are the reason bars are closed down again.
those heroes are the reason numbers are spiking again.
those heroes are the reason the hospitals are filled again.
those heroes are the reason ICU beds are all gone.
Those heroes are the reason states are prepping for lockdown again.
if they had "been afraid" as you put it, we would be getting ready to open safely by now.

now bars are closed a second time after just spending immense amounts of money to restock which many can not afford to do a second time. if people had stayed home like they were supposed to in the first place, and worn masks when they did go out, bars would not be dying. now those bars people flocked to will close for good.
i just lost 3 nights to venues who said they can not afford to restock a second time so have to close for good.
reopening as soon as they did is what will be sinking our industry.


I disagree. So do all those people in the bars. Only time will tell who wins this fight for freedom.

"open safely by now"? Really? It's never safe. That's the whole point. Life is dangerous. Either get busy living or get busy dying, but in this country, stop telling others how to do it. People have the "right to pursue happiness". Stop telling me I might stop your happiness if I don't protect you from getting sick. That's your responsibility. Since when am I responsible for you not catching something? That has never been a thing in our lifetime and you think people are just going to suddenly think so? This isn't Ebola. Not everyone dies. Not even close. Stop acting like it. I'm not advocating purposefully giving it to the vulnerable. I'm just saying they are the minority in this democracy and as long as they keep themselves safe, they will be. They are perfectly capable of protecting the vulnerable without making the rest of us stop our normal lives. That's a fact. They could cordon off nursing homes to protect the elderly. Other older people could certainly take more steps themselves along with their families to better protect them. All those people who are vulnerable because of diabetes or just being overweight maybe should seriously consider a new diet. We are the most obese and unhealthy country on the planet. We are going to have the most deaths because of it. No way around it. Are the rest of us ok with this? Obviously the majority of us are. Well, at least the majority of us who know how to put down a box of Twinkies.

Either get healthy or protect yourself. That's the general consensus. Also, the karaoke singers are the majority in this equation. They are not showing the fear that some of you KJs are. They are coming out in large numbers and if you don't want to serve them, there's always another KJ who will. That's the reality of what you're facing. You may earn some points with your grandmother for acting like you want her protected, but you may also lose your job in the process. Frankly, I hope you do. This industry doesn't need KJs who won't stand up for the people they're supposed to be serving. If you want to help people from sickness, get a job in a hospital. Real KJs want to work in the real world where it's always a little dangerous. The singers are coming out. Why aren't you? Why are you cowering at home and advocating the same? Are you one of the vulnerable? If so, say so. It would certainly explain your perspective.

Do you know why predatory animals have developed an ability to sense fear? It's because they're smart enough to know who will fight back and who won't. Guess which one dies in that equation? The same is true of your career as a KJ if you keep thinking this way. The singers are heroes.

Those heroes are living
Those heroes aren't sitting at home
Those heroes aren't afraid
Those heroes used to pay your bills
...and those heroes will pay for any other KJ who doesn't sit home and hide while they have the guts to come out and sing and live. That I can assure you as a singer myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:16 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:
This isn't Ebola. Not everyone dies.


To the same end--

This isn't Ebola. It doesn't have as much difficulty spreading.

Bob Latshaw wrote:
The singers are heroes.

Those heroes are living
Those heroes aren't sitting at home
Those heroes aren't afraid
Those heroes used to pay your bills
...and those heroes will pay for any other KJ who doesn't sit home and hide while they have the guts to come out and sing and live. That I can assure you as a singer myself.


I... we... what?

I've taken the risk of going out to a few places and doing some karaoke. This is not in any way shape or form heroic. There is no heroism in my not-great singing.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:50 am 
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Bob Latshaw wrote:

I disagree. So do all those people in the bars. Only time will tell who wins this fight for freedom.

"open safely by now"? Really? It's never safe. That's the whole point. Life is dangerous. Either get busy living or get busy dying, but in this country, stop telling others how to do it. People have the "right to pursue happiness". Stop telling me I might stop your happiness if I don't protect you from getting sick. That's your responsibility. Since when am I responsible for you not catching something? That has never been a thing in our lifetime and you think people are just going to suddenly think so? This isn't Ebola. Not everyone dies. Not even close. Stop acting like it. I'm not advocating purposefully giving it to the vulnerable. I'm just saying they are the minority in this democracy and as long as they keep themselves safe, they will be. They are perfectly capable of protecting the vulnerable without making the rest of us stop our normal lives. That's a fact. They could cordon off nursing homes to protect the elderly. Other older people could certainly take more steps themselves along with their families to better protect them. All those people who are vulnerable because of diabetes or just being overweight maybe should seriously consider a new diet. We are the most obese and unhealthy country on the planet. We are going to have the most deaths because of it. No way around it. Are the rest of us ok with this? Obviously the majority of us are. Well, at least the majority of us who know how to put down a box of Twinkies.

Either get healthy or protect yourself. That's the general consensus. Also, the karaoke singers are the majority in this equation. They are not showing the fear that some of you KJs are. They are coming out in large numbers and if you don't want to serve them, there's always another KJ who will. That's the reality of what you're facing. You may earn some points with your grandmother for acting like you want her protected, but you may also lose your job in the process. Frankly, I hope you do. This industry doesn't need KJs who won't stand up for the people they're supposed to be serving. If you want to help people from sickness, get a job in a hospital. Real KJs want to work in the real world where it's always a little dangerous. The singers are coming out. Why aren't you? Why are you cowering at home and advocating the same? Are you one of the vulnerable? If so, say so. It would certainly explain your perspective.

Do you know why predatory animals have developed an ability to sense fear? It's because they're smart enough to know who will fight back and who won't. Guess which one dies in that equation? The same is true of your career as a KJ if you keep thinking this way. The singers are heroes.

Those heroes are living
Those heroes aren't sitting at home
Those heroes aren't afraid
Those heroes used to pay your bills
...and those heroes will pay for any other KJ who doesn't sit home and hide while they have the guts to come out and sing and live. That I can assure you as a singer myself.



Bob this is so wrong on so many levels, that it is hard to know where to begin. First of all we are humans and not animals, we are supposed to use reason and science, and not give into to our base animal passions. You want to throw out hundreds of years of the Enlightenment and go back to the Middle Ages really? Heroes try to save lives, not throw them away in a reckless manner. Sometimes it takes more courage to do nothing, have you ever thought about that? I don't need anyone to pay my bills, I pay my own and always have. If I needed to get another job I would, rather than be responsible for spreading a deadly virus around, I would like to think that most hosts want to act in a reasonable manner. I can see you were never in the military, exposing yourself to needless danger is not a way to win, it is a way to get yourself killed and others on your team, who are depending on you. Isn't it a little bit arrogant of you to determine what the karaoke industry needs as a whole? Freedom does not mean that it is absolute, just like any other right, you have to act responsibly. You might have the right to fresh air, you can't open a window, however, when you are riding in a jet plane. We live in an interdependent world, and society does expect a certain amount of conformity, in order for all to be able to live together. A pandemic is not a time to play John Wayne!

P.S. Well Bob there goes the neighborhood another blow to freedom, now Walmart is requiring everyone to wear a mask to get in the store. Face it Bob "Mask Good".


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 Post subject: Re: Signs of recovery
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:24 am 
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Never said masks were bad. I wear one in public all the time just like most people. The people who think we need to shut down businesses are the problem. Also, there are places you just can't require a mask, such as bars and restaurants. You think we should keep open certain businesses like grocery stores, and you have no problem with that because it serves your needs. Well some people think the weekly trip to the bar to sing a song is a need. Is your need more valuable than theirs? Do you think you have a right to draw a line where others' needs are? I don't recall that part in our constitution. People are (or should be) smart enough to know what the risky behaviors are in life. During this pandemic, that level of risks varies from person to person, but it doesn't change the fact that we all know who the most vulnerable are and what needs to be done to protect them, and it doesn't include closing anything. Anyone who thinks we need to close things is just paranoid. There are a lot of countries who didn't close anything and they're still here and so are the vast majority of their citizens. If you're a grown adult and you get COVID, it's not the fault of anyone (unless you're in a facility that contracted to take responsibility for you).

If my mother goes out to a restaurant and gets COVID and dies, I don't hold anyone at that restaurant responsible. Neither would she. She's said so. She knows the risks and takes responsibility for herself. I would have the same attitude if I was vulnerable. I'm not completely invulnerable. No one is, but anyone who thinks others are responsible for protecting us from germs is irresponsible. Call me crazy, but I was raised to believe that once you're 18, you're responsible for yourself when it comes to keeping yourself alive (unless you're handicapped and in the care of another). Did that suddenly change with this new germ? No it didn't. I'm sorry you think it did.

Look, I'm not a gun owner and literally hate gun nuts, but I'm not going around saying that we should make them think like us and take their guns away and live like the rest of us just so I can "feel" more safe. I think most religions are crazy too, but I don't have a right to tell them how to think either. This is America, and you just don't treat one group with more preferential treatment than another, even if it makes our world a little more dangerous (the gun nuts I mentioned just as one example). Until you find someone actively breaking the laws, they're not doing anything wrong. If my state says bars can open, bars can open, regardless of whether you like it or not. Welcome to America, the home of the brave.


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