Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Singing is a super-spreader activity

I am very concerned about the karaoke shows starting up already.

While I do care greatly for my KJ's, and am really itching to go out for karaoke once again, it is just far too early to do so.

Singing is a super-spreader activity. When we sing, we breathe in deeper and expel air much more forcefully than your standard conversation. This makes the 6ft rule pointless.

One person singing can infect a large room of people in short order. There are already reports of a single person infecting almost all of a 50 member choir in a single rehearsal.

When we exhale, we expel micro-particles of moisture that can carry the virus. With normal talking, 6ft is usually a safe distance. When singing, the increased force of air makes the mist finer and allows it to travel further. This makes it possible for a single person to infect an entire room.

The only way I could see karaoke being safe right now would be with an outdoor venue and a steady stream of air flowing between the singer and the audience.

While I cannot stop anyone from hosting or attending a karaoke show... and man, am I really, really want to go out and sing... I encourage everyone to use caution, as I truly want to sing with you guys in the future.

-Lucas Purcell

I believe that 'karaoke (or bar) people' are probably among those that have the heartiest immune systems. We've been exposed to just about every damn germ out there. It's almost like going to Chuck E. Cheese every karaoke night. Almost. Lots of germs SHOULD lead to lots of antibodies.

djdon wrote:

Once again, another example why you should never believe anything posted on the internet. This is totally false. The sad thing is that there are people that will actually believe this misinformation.

While a person with a stronger immune system would be less susceptible to less virulent diseases, we are dealing with a pandemic here.

While a person with a stronger immune system would be less susceptible to less virulent diseases, we are dealing with a pandemic here. Nobody will have an immunity to it until they get and fight off the virus, or until a vaccine is created and used. There is no "natural immunity" for this virus. The best you can hope for is just mild symptoms.

As far as KJs losing their venues, if I catch one of my karaoke spots opening up early, I will check if the KJ has changed. If they got a new KJ, I will let the management know that I do not like their decision and leave.

Lucas Purcell wrote:

While a person with a stronger immune system would be less susceptible to less virulent diseases, we are dealing with a pandemic here.

So... Lucas, let me ask you a question. If you were a KJ and the bar wanted you to start up karaoke again... would you go back?

Now there are studies showing asymptmatic people are low risk in spreading along with it doesnt spread as easily on surfaces as once believed.

don't forget the Italian doctors that proved Covid19 is not a virus at all, but bacterial. amazing... millions of doctors, scientists, virologists, epidemiologists, all completely forgot how to tell the difference between a living bacterium and a non living virus.

i didn't say it...i was mocking them.

I agree.. I want it too, but I'm worried about restarting too.

The bar and I have discussed, and are implementing measures on keeping everyone safe such as single use foam covers, sanitization, and exclusively using remote request... At the end of the day, my biggest concern is intoxicated people and trying to maintain the measures put in place. It may have to come down to a waiver, sadly.

I miss my show and I want nothing more than to get going again, but I don't want to risk the safety of others.

Paradigm Karaoke wrote:

i didn't say it...i was mocking them.

But, did you believe them, or were fooled by them?

Author:	Lucas Purcell [ Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Singing is a super-spreader activity
I am very concerned about the karaoke shows starting up already. While I do care greatly for my KJ's, and am really itching to go out for karaoke once again, it is just far too early to do so. Singing is a super-spreader activity. When we sing, we breathe in deeper and expel air much more forcefully than your standard conversation. This makes the 6ft rule pointless. One person singing can infect a large room of people in short order. There are already reports of a single person infecting almost all of a 50 member choir in a single rehearsal. When we exhale, we expel micro-particles of moisture that can carry the virus. With normal talking, 6ft is usually a safe distance. When singing, the increased force of air makes the mist finer and allows it to travel further. This makes it possible for a single person to infect an entire room. The only way I could see karaoke being safe right now would be with an outdoor venue and a steady stream of air flowing between the singer and the audience. While I cannot stop anyone from hosting or attending a karaoke show... and man, am I really, really want to go out and sing... I encourage everyone to use caution, as I truly want to sing with you guys in the future. -Lucas Purcell

Author:	Alan B [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Lucas Purcell wrote: I am very concerned about the karaoke shows starting up already. While I do care greatly for my KJ's, and am really itching to go out for karaoke once again, it is just far too early to do so. Singing is a super-spreader activity. When we sing, we breathe in deeper and expel air much more forcefully than your standard conversation. This makes the 6ft rule pointless. One person singing can infect a large room of people in short order. There are already reports of a single person infecting almost all of a 50 member choir in a single rehearsal. When we exhale, we expel micro-particles of moisture that can carry the virus. With normal talking, 6ft is usually a safe distance. When singing, the increased force of air makes the mist finer and allows it to travel further. This makes it possible for a single person to infect an entire room. The only way I could see karaoke being safe right now would be with an outdoor venue and a steady stream of air flowing between the singer and the audience. While I cannot stop anyone from hosting or attending a karaoke show... and man, am I really, really want to go out and sing... I encourage everyone to use caution, as I truly want to sing with you guys in the future. -Lucas Purcell Hi Lucas. These are all valid concerns and I agree that it's too early to bring back karaoke at this time. Hosts have a difficult decision to make: risk losing their lives or their job. When the venue decides to start up karaoke again, if the KJ chooses not to go back, they will get someone else. It will be all over for the KJ. Most will lose a successful business that took years to build. The lost revenue from hosting has hurt a lot of KJ's. Many rely on hosting as their only source of income, while others, as a supplement to help them to get by. It is a difficult choice to make. We don't want to lose our jobs but we don't want to lose our lives, either. But, what makes it even more difficult for the host is the fact that many venues that have opened, are not taking any type of precautions and letting people do what they want. People are not keeping their distance and are still hugging and shaking hands with everyone. You have no idea where all those people in the bar have been, or who they've been in contact with. Gathering in a confined space, such as a bar, is a recipe for disaster (IMO). So, indeed this is a difficult decision to make, not only for the KJ but for the singer as well. It would be easier if there was a treatment or vaccine for the disease but at this time there is not. On a positive note, I've gotten 10 singers so far to buy their own mic (Behringer XM8500). The goal is for all singers to have their own mic. No more shared microphones. In any case, I agree with you that this is not the time for karaoke.

Author:	djdon [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Singing at karaoke has ALWAYS... been a 'super spreader activity'. That's why I believe that 'karaoke (or bar) people' are probably among those that have the heartiest immune systems. We've been exposed to just about every damn germ out there. It's almost like going to Chuck E. Cheese every karaoke night. Almost. Lots of germs SHOULD lead to lots of antibodies. From a karaoke POV, I think we're way overthinking this. We are all adults who should be capable of making informed decisions for ourselves. Do what's best for yourselves. If it's not time for someone to go to karaoke, then don't. Take precautions that you feel you need to take.

Author:	Alan B [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
djdon wrote: I believe that 'karaoke (or bar) people' are probably among those that have the heartiest immune systems. We've been exposed to just about every damn germ out there. It's almost like going to Chuck E. Cheese every karaoke night. Almost. Lots of germs SHOULD lead to lots of antibodies. Once again, another example why you should never believe anything posted on the internet. This is totally false. The sad thing is that there are people that will actually believe this misinformation.

Author:	djdon [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Alan B wrote: djdon wrote: I believe that 'karaoke (or bar) people' are probably among those that have the heartiest immune systems. We've been exposed to just about every damn germ out there. It's almost like going to Chuck E. Cheese every karaoke night. Almost. Lots of germs SHOULD lead to lots of antibodies. Once again, another example why you should never believe anything posted on the internet. This is totally false. The sad thing is that there are people that will actually believe this misinformation. I'm not asserting that's it's factually correct, however it would seem to make sense. I would imagine one's immune system that has been exposed to the public should, in theory, be 'stronger' than those that have been sitting inside a house for months, exposed to no one, no sunlight and likely less exercise and maybe less healthy diet. I get there are other factors like age, comorbidities, underlying conditions etc, however, they apply to all germs. Some people are susceptible to getting sick more than others. That's not really the point here, though. People act like covid-19 is the first and only disease ever to plague our health, and they panic accordingly. If you're going to panic over this, panic responsibly. If you have information to the contrary; if you can tell the class exactly what I posted is 'false' or what the misinformation is that shouldn't be believed, we're all ears.

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Author:	Lucas Purcell [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
While a person with a stronger immune system would be less susceptible to less virulent diseases, we are dealing with a pandemic here. Nobody will have an immunity to it until they get and fight off the virus, or until a vaccine is created and used. There is no "natural immunity" for this virus. The best you can hope for is just mild symptoms. As far as KJs losing their venues, if I catch one of my karaoke spots opening up early, I will check if the KJ has changed. If they got a new KJ, I will let the management know that I do not like their decision and leave.

Author:	Alan B [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Lucas Purcell wrote: While a person with a stronger immune system would be less susceptible to less virulent diseases, we are dealing with a pandemic here. So... Lucas, let me ask you a question. If you were a KJ and the bar wanted you to start up karaoke again... would you go back?

Author:	djdon [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Lucas Purcell wrote: While a person with a stronger immune system would be less susceptible to less virulent diseases, we are dealing with a pandemic here. Nobody will have an immunity to it until they get and fight off the virus, or until a vaccine is created and used. There is no "natural immunity" for this virus. The best you can hope for is just mild symptoms. As far as KJs losing their venues, if I catch one of my karaoke spots opening up early, I will check if the KJ has changed. If they got a new KJ, I will let the management know that I do not like their decision and leave. The virus is likely going to be with us for quite some time. How long do we sit home and stare at fox or cnn or the President, like they're God? Until they say it's ok to go back out and play? I'm all for acting responsibly but there is an awful lot of hypocrisy and misinformation out there. I'm certainly not trying to spread 'misinformation' myself. I'm speaking anecdotally when I speak about germs and antibodies and immune systems. I'm no doctor, and I don't think anyone else here is, either. Again, if you don't feel it's time to get out there, then stay home. It's pretty much that simple.

Author:	mrmarog [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Ok, as a person who was married to a scientific microbiologist for 15 longgggggg years, I did pick up some facts that have stuck with me. Like any living organism a virus's goal is to survive and spread. As one's immunity increases the virus needs to mutate to survive. Usually it does not get stronger, but instead gets weaker and easier to transmit. A simple titer test can confirm the antibodies and the mutations. So indeed it is true that the more exposure we have the less likely the virus will survive. Viruses also die out because it runs into a dead end road when no viable/weak host can be found before it's life span ends, which we/scientists have arbitrarily said is 14 days. There has been so much misinformation about how dangerous the vaporization of an infected persons exhale/sneeze/cough can be, it has now become quite clear that most don't have a clue. Herd immunization is how all living species have survived throughout history. What we did learn very early on was to protect the old and the frail........ some failed miserably at applying that simple rule. I for one am nearly 70 (BD 9/11/1950) and I refuse to stop enjoying my life, when common sense is all you need to get through this. If you don't know what I mean, you better follow the weak.

Author:	The Lone Ranger [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Even the strong can get sick, the virus is no respecter of persons, or political beliefs, when you get sick enough to end up in the hospital, you have a one in four chance of surviving it.

Author:	Lucas Purcell [ Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Alan B wrote: Lucas Purcell wrote: While a person with a stronger immune system would be less susceptible to less virulent diseases, we are dealing with a pandemic here. So... Lucas, let me ask you a question. If you were a KJ and the bar wanted you to start up karaoke again... would you go back? I wish I had a good answer for this. I would likely ask the bar if they had any plans to minimize the virus spread. Even restaurants are doing something. But in the worst case scenario, I might have to get a fitted N95 mask to at least protect myself.

Author:	Lonman [ Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Now there are studies showing asymptmatic people are low risk in spreading along with it doesnt spread as easily on surfaces as once believed.

Author:	Paradigm Karaoke [ Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Lonman wrote: Now there are studies showing asymptmatic people are low risk in spreading along with it doesnt spread as easily on surfaces as once believed. don't forget the Italian doctors that proved Covid19 is not a virus at all, but bacterial. amazing... millions of doctors, scientists, virologists, epidemiologists, all completely forgot how to tell the difference between a living bacterium and a non living virus.

Author:	mrmarog [ Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Paradigm Karaoke wrote: don't forget the Italian doctors that proved Covid19 is not a virus at all, but bacterial. amazing... millions of doctors, scientists, virologists, epidemiologists, all completely forgot how to tell the difference between a living bacterium and a non living virus. "Why is the virus called coronavirus? Coronaviruses derive their name from the fact that under electron microscopic examination, each virion is surrounded by a “corona,” or halo." The clue here is ELECTRON MICROSCOPE. viruses are much smaller in size than bacteria "Viruses vs Bacteria. Bacteria (singular is bacterium) are one celled living organisms with complete genetic 'codes' made up of DNA and RNA. A virus is a section of DNA or RNA enclosed by a protein shell. Bacteria are over 100 times larger than viruses, but both can still only be seen by using a microscope." Anybody confusing a bacteria vs. a virus is an IDIOT! Paradigm, take a refresher course in basic biology. BTW. in the mid 1980's I used a SEM (scanning electron microscope) to identify defects in the dielectric of an ultra high capacitance surface of a tantalum wet slug capacitor. The thickness of the dielectric is a couple hundred angstroms thick.

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Author:	mrmarog [ Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Paradigm Karaoke wrote: i didn't say it...i was mocking them. But, did you believe them, or were fooled by them?

Author:	Krisko [ Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
I agree.. I want it too, but I'm worried about restarting too. The bar and I have discussed, and are implementing measures on keeping everyone safe such as single use foam covers, sanitization, and exclusively using remote request... At the end of the day, my biggest concern is intoxicated people and trying to maintain the measures put in place. It may have to come down to a waiver, sadly. I miss my show and I want nothing more than to get going again, but I don't want to risk the safety of others.

Author:	djdon [ Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Krisko wrote: I agree.. I want it too, but I'm worried about restarting too. The bar and I have discussed, and are implementing measures on keeping everyone safe such as single use foam covers, sanitization, and exclusively using remote request... At the end of the day, my biggest concern is intoxicated people and trying to maintain the measures put in place. It may have to come down to a waiver, sadly. I miss my show and I want nothing more than to get going again, but I don't want to risk the safety of others. A waiver? For who? What would it say? And who do you think would actually sign it?

Author:	DannyG2006 [ Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singing is a super-spreader activity
Krisko wrote: I agree.. I want it too, but I'm worried about restarting too. The bar and I have discussed, and are implementing measures on keeping everyone safe such as single use foam covers, sanitization, and exclusively using remote request... At the end of the day, my biggest concern is intoxicated people and trying to maintain the measures put in place. It may have to come down to a waiver, sadly. I miss my show and I want nothing more than to get going again, but I don't want to risk the safety of others. Consider getting your singers to purchase their covers and use them through the night. They are at least just dealing with their germs when it comes to where their mouth is. All they have to do is put the cover on before singing and take them off when done. Totally agree with remote requests. As to the waiver, I doubt that it would hold up in court. The court might laugh the case out of court but you never know.